Google Meet vs Jitsi Meet

Google Meet fits organizations that already run on Workspace and want no servers to manage. Self-hosted Jitsi Meet fits teams that need meetings, recordings and login control inside their own infrastructure, at the cost of running it.

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When Google Meet or self-hosted Jitsi Meet is the right choice

Google Meet fits teams already on Workspace who want zero servers to run, while self-hosted Jitsi Meet fits teams that need control over where meetings, participant data and recordings live. If your trigger is a Workspace renewal, a data residency requirement or a lock-in concern, the decision is less about video quality than about who operates the service and where its files end up. Meet is bundled into Workspace editions, so the question is whether you want to keep paying for that bundle and accept Google's controls, or take on the operating work yourself.

Four drivers should settle the choice. First, participant needs: list the largest meetings you hold, how many external guests join, and whether guests need accounts, since Jitsi guest access depends on how you configure authentication through JWT tokens or a separate anonymous domain. Second, where recordings must live: Meet recordings land in Drive, while a Jitsi deployment records through Jibri, so confirm your retention and access rules for those files before you commit. Third, who operates the servers: Jitsi needs the web front end, Prosody, Jicofo and one or more Jitsi Videobridge instances, and each videobridge added is capacity you size and pay for. Fourth, staff: confirm you have Linux administrators and network engineers who can open the required ports, manage TLS certificates and monitor media servers, because the Jitsi handbook states that HTTPS with a proper domain certificate is necessary for audio and video to work.

If most of your meetings are internal, your users already work in Workspace, and you have no compliance reason to move recordings, staying on Meet is usually the lower-effort path. If you need guest access without Google accounts, strict control over recording storage or an in-house deployment, plan a Jitsi pilot with a fixed set of meetings and measure load before you switch. Ask the vendor or your own platform team to confirm how many concurrent participants your chosen server sizes support, and treat that figure as the test, not the marketing claim.

Which platform fits which scenario

This table matches common situations to the platform that usually fits better, and names the condition that decides it. Read each row against your own edition, data location and operating capacity, because most of the choice depends on those three facts rather than on feature lists alone.

ScenarioBetter fitDeciding condition
Small office already on a Workspace editionGoogle MeetMeet is already included in your edition, staff use Calendar invites daily, and no one has to operate servers. Self-hosting only pays off if the edition or data location changes.
Regulated team that must keep recordings on its own storageJitsi MeetJibri writes recordings to storage you control, while Meet recordings are saved to Drive. Confirm your retention, access and encryption requirements with your compliance lead before you choose.
Organization with many external guestsDepends on guest modelMeet lets guests join from links without a Workspace account. Jitsi guests need a separate anonymous domain or open rooms, so plan the authentication model with JWT tokens before rollout.
Team with no infrastructure staffGoogle MeetJitsi needs HTTPS with a valid domain certificate, videobridge capacity and ongoing upgrades. Without an operations owner, the hosted service or a managed partner is the safer route.
Multi-site organization with uneven bandwidthJitsi MeetVideobridges can be added in each site and scale horizontally, so media can stay local. Check the bandwidth and firewall ports at every site, since UDP 10000 must be reachable.
Large meetings with unpredictable peaksGoogle MeetCapacity in Meet is managed by Google. Self-hosted Jitsi needs enough videobridge machines for peak load, so ask for a sizing review against your largest expected meeting.
Organization that needs end-to-end encryption on its own serversConfirm per featureCheck which encryption modes apply to your edition and to the Jitsi version you deploy, and test them with your security team. Do not assume parity between the two platforms.
Organization needing SIP or room system integrationConfirm per featureJitsi offers Jigasi for SIP gateway use, which needs separate design and testing. Confirm the telephony and room device requirements before you commit.

What a self-hosted Jitsi Meet deployment is made of

A self-hosted Jitsi Meet deployment is a set of cooperating services, and the first decision is how much of that set you need. The web front end serves the browser app, Prosody acts as the XMPP server that handles signaling and user sessions, and Jicofo (the conference focus) allocates each conference to a media router. The media itself flows through Jitsi Videobridge, the component that carries audio and video between participants. Jibri, which records and streams meetings, and Jigasi, which bridges SIP telephone callers, are optional. Leave them out at first and add them only when a recording or dial-in requirement appears in your scope.

The official distribution supports two install paths. The Docker setup runs the web, prosody, jicofo, jvb, jigasi and jibri services as separate containers, configured through a .env file, and since stable-11146 those containers run rootless with read-only filesystems, which is a useful baseline for a security review. The Debian and Ubuntu packages suit teams that prefer host-level administration. Confirm the current supported operating system versions in the Debian and Ubuntu quick start before you pick a base image, because the list changes between releases. Plan for HTTPS from the first day, since Jitsi's guidance states it is necessary for multimedia to work, and self-signed certificates cause problems, especially on mobile clients.

Scaling is where the cost model differs most from Google Meet. Jitsi Videobridges scale horizontally, so capacity grows by adding bridges instead of buying a larger central server, and the default install is already set up for that. Each bridge needs its own CPU and memory, and the central server stays comparatively small. Ask your architect to size the bridges against your peak concurrent participants and the bandwidth at each site, then test with a realistic meeting load before go-live. Recording through Jibri needs its own capacity planning, because each recording session consumes resources that a plain meeting does not.

Where meetings, recordings and identities live

Google Meet runs on Google's infrastructure under the Workspace contract, while a Jitsi deployment places media, recordings and accounts wherever you put the servers. The cards below cover the decisions that follow from that difference: where media and recordings sit, which hosting model you pick, how people log in, and what compliance work stays with your team.

Where media and recordings sit

With Google Meet, media processing and Drive storage for recordings are operated by Google under your Workspace agreement. With self-hosted Jitsi, the Jitsi Videobridge media routers and the Jibri recording containers run in the infrastructure you choose, so recording files stay on storage you control until you move them. Check where the Jibri output volume lives, how long recordings persist, and who can read the storage bucket or host filesystem.

Self-hosted in your own cloud

A self-hosted Jitsi deployment runs the web, Prosody, Jicofo, Videobridge and optional Jibri and Jigasi components in your cloud account or data center. You decide the region, network paths and who has operator access. The cost is that your team owns uptime, patching, capacity planning and backups. Ask who will maintain the videobridges and how you will add capacity when a meeting peaks.

Hosted Jitsi as a Service

8x8 offers JaaS (Jitsi as a Service), run by the team that builds Jitsi, which moves operations to a vendor while keeping the Jitsi client. The free public meet.jit.si instance is a shared service with no contractual data terms you control, so it does not fit regulated meetings. Before choosing JaaS, confirm the data location, retention, subprocessors and contract terms in writing with 8x8.

Identity and login choices

Jitsi supports internal XMPP accounts, JWT tokens, LDAP, Matrix user verification and a hybrid Matrix plus JWT mode, set in the .env file. The handbook marks the older secure domain method as deprecated for new installs and recommends JWT with a separate anonymous domain for guests. Map each meeting type to a login path, and confirm how your directory groups will reach the JWT issuer.

HTTPS and certificates

Jitsi needs HTTPS with a proper domain certificate for audio and video to work. The handbook warns that self-signed certificates cause problems, especially with mobile clients, so an internal certificate authority must be trusted on every device your staff use. Google Meet handles this for you. Plan certificate issuance, renewal and monitoring as a standing task, and test on iOS and Android before rollout.

Compliance evidence and assessors

Moving meetings to Jitsi moves the evidence work to your team. You must document configuration, access reviews, retention settings, change records and recording handling, and your controls must be assessed by an independent auditor or certification body. DeployOpen prepares systems and evidence for that assessment but does not issue audit reports or certifications. Confirm early which frameworks apply to your meetings, since Workspace controls cannot be carried over automatically.

Licensing: what the open-source code allows and what it does not

Google Meet is proprietary software operated by Google and included in Google Workspace editions. You subscribe to a hosted service under Google's terms and do not receive a copy of the code. Which features you get, including recording, live streaming and participant limits, depends on your edition, so the feature comparison for your edition is the starting point for any licensing review.

  • No source access: You cannot inspect, modify or redistribute the Meet client or server code.
  • Edition-bound features: Capabilities are assigned per edition, so a plan change changes what your users can do.
  • Hosted operation: Google runs the infrastructure, so hosting, upgrades and availability sit with Google under the service terms.
  • Contract-governed use: Acceptable use, data processing and retention follow Google's agreements, which procurement should review before renewal.

Check the Workspace terms and the feature table for your edition, and ask your account team to confirm in writing which meeting features your contract includes.

What self-hosting Jitsi costs beyond the software

The Jitsi Meet software is free under Apache 2.0, so the spend sits in the infrastructure and the people who run it. The central server runs the web front end, Prosody, Jicofo and the rest of the control plane, and each Jitsi Videobridge carries the media. The Jitsi scalable setup guide suggests a 4 CPU, 8 GB machine for the central server and 4 or 8 CPU with 8 GB RAM for each videobridge, and it notes that the default install is already configured to add bridges horizontally. Those are recurring compute costs, billed either as cloud instances or as hardware you depreciate in your own data center. Ask your provider or infrastructure team to price one central server and enough bridges for your peak concurrent participants, then add a spare bridge for failover and maintenance windows.

Bandwidth and storage are the costs most often underestimated. Video traffic from every participant passes through a bridge, so egress charges or uplink capacity scale with meeting size and hours of use, and you should confirm the figures with your hosting provider's transfer pricing. Recordings made with Jibri are written to disk on a Jibri host and then need a retention policy, backup and eventually cold storage. Jibri also needs its own capacity, since each concurrent recording consumes CPU. TLS certificates are a small line item, but the Jitsi handbook states that HTTPS with a proper domain certificate is necessary for audio and video to work, so budget for a managed certificate process and its renewal.

The largest cost is usually staff time. Someone must patch the containers or packages, track releases such as the stable build tags published on the jitsi-meet repository, monitor bridge load and watch for certificate expiry. Teams should estimate that effort in their own change calendar rather than trust a generic figure, and should decide whether in-house staff or a support retainer will carry it. Google Meet's cost is not a separate line item for most organizations, because it is bundled into Workspace licensing, so the comparison is about whether removing Meet from your Workspace edition would actually lower spend. Ask any implementation partner for a written scope listing infrastructure, monitoring, upgrades and support as separate lines, so you can compare the recurring total with your current Workspace cost.

Cost components on each side, one-time and recurring

Google Meet is bundled into Workspace editions, so its cost is a per-user subscription rather than a line item you can remove alone. Self-hosted Jitsi moves the cost into servers, bandwidth, storage, certificates and the people who run them. The cards below separate one-time setup from recurring spend and name the factors that move each figure.

Licensing

Jitsi Meet is licensed under Apache 2.0, so there is no per-seat fee for the software itself. On the Google side, Meet access comes with a Workspace edition, and the licensing cost is whatever you pay per user for that edition. Ask your Google reseller or admin console which edition includes the meeting features and recording you need, and whether any of them are add-ons. Ask any Jitsi support provider to separate fixed scope fees from recurring retainers.

Compute for media servers

A self-hosted deployment needs a central server for the web app, Prosody, and Jicofo, plus one or more Jitsi Videobridge machines that carry the media. The scalable setup guide suggests 4 CPU and 8 GB RAM for the central server and 4 or 8 CPU with 8 GB RAM for each videobridge, which is a starting point, not a sizing guarantee. Compute cost rises with concurrent participants and video quality, and falls when you schedule meetings to spread load. This is recurring cloud or hardware spend.

Bandwidth and egress

Media traffic flows through your videobridges, so bandwidth is a recurring cost on your own network or cloud account. Jitsi uses UDP port 10000 for media by default, and TCP 443 as a fallback path where UDP is blocked. Egress charges from a cloud provider can grow with meeting size and hours, while on-premises links are usually a fixed cost. Ask your provider for egress pricing per gigabyte and which region your videobridges run in.

Recording storage

Google Meet recordings are saved to Google Drive and count against Drive storage in your Workspace plan. A self-hosted Jibri setup writes recordings to a disk or volume you provision, so storage becomes a recurring capacity cost plus backup and retention costs. Recording storage grows with meeting hours and retention periods, and it can be reduced by setting a deletion policy or moving older files to cheaper object storage. Confirm your retention policy before you size the volume.

TLS certificates and domain

Jitsi needs HTTPS with a proper domain certificate for audio and video to work, and the handbook warns that self-signed certificates cause problems, especially on mobile clients. A public certificate authority or an internal CA with a managed trust chain is a recurring task, and a registered domain is an annual cost. Certificate issuance through Let's Encrypt is free, but the renewal automation and monitoring are work you own. Confirm whether your internal policy requires a commercial certificate.

Deployment effort

Initial setup is the one-time cost on the Jitsi side. It covers installing the Docker or Debian packages, configuring the .env file, choosing an authentication method, setting up JWT tokens or LDAP, and testing with real clients across your network. Google Meet has no comparable setup cost beyond admin configuration in Workspace. Ask any implementation partner for a fixed-scope written proposal that lists the environments, identity integration and acceptance tests before work starts.

Operations, upgrades and staff skills

Running Jitsi is recurring work. Your team patches the operating system and containers, watches capacity, rotates certificates, backs up configuration and applies new Jitsi releases such as stable-11248. Those tasks need staff who understand Linux, networking, XMPP-based components and TLS. Google handles these functions for you on Meet, so the Jitsi side carries internal headcount or a retainer for ongoing support. Ask whether your provider offers continuous upgrade and monitoring services and what response times they commit to in writing.

Support contracts

Google Workspace includes support tiers that depend on edition and contract, and Jitsi has no paid support from the project itself. Community help is free but carries no response commitment. Paid support for self-hosted Jitsi comes from a separate provider, or from 8x8's hosted Jitsi as a Service if you move to a managed model. Compare support SLAs in writing, including severity definitions and escalation paths, and confirm who answers when a videobridge fails during a board meeting.

What moving from Google Meet to Jitsi involves

The sequence below takes a team from an inventory of how Meet is used to a Jitsi deployment that members and guests join through separate, controlled paths. Each step produces a check you can confirm before moving to the next.

  1. Inventory how Meet is actually used

    Someone from IT or collaboration operations, working with a few meeting owners, lists where Meet links appear: calendar invites, shared room calendars, meeting templates, LMS or intranet pages, and recurring series. Record which recordings sit in Drive, who owns them, and how many external guests join from outside your Workspace domain. Done means you have a written list of every entry point and every recording location, and you know which meetings include external guests.

  2. Size and deploy the Jitsi stack

    Your platform or infrastructure team chooses where Jitsi runs, whether in your own data center, a private cloud account or a host you control, and deploys the web front end, Prosody, Jicofo and Jitsi Videobridge. The Jitsi scalable setup guide describes adding videobridges horizontally, so plan capacity against your expected concurrent participants and confirm the sizing with your own load tests. Done means a test meeting runs with audio and video across at least two networks.

  3. Configure HTTPS and authentication

    Issue a valid certificate for the Jitsi domain, because the Jitsi handbook states HTTPS is necessary for audio and video to work and warns that self-signed certificates cause problems, especially on mobile. Configure JWT token authentication for members and place guests on a separate anonymous domain, avoiding the deprecated secure domain method for new installations. Confirm the configuration in your .env file with your identity team. Done means a signed-in member can start a room, and a guest link cannot create rooms on the member domain.

  4. Pilot with one team

    Choose a team with frequent internal meetings and few external guests, and move its recurring meetings to Jitsi links for a fixed period agreed beforehand. Collect feedback on join reliability, browser and device issues, screen sharing, and whether members understand where recordings go. Recording with Jibri is optional and needs its own setup, so decide early whether the pilot needs it. Done means the pilot team has signed off on the join flow and the list of issues is either fixed or accepted.

  5. Replace Meet links in calendar invites

    Update the meeting templates, room calendar resources and recurring invites from the inventory so they point to Jitsi rooms. Where your calendar system supports it, use a template or a scripted update rather than editing series one by one, and keep the old Meet links working for a short overlap so people with saved invites are not stranded. Confirm the change with your calendar administrators, since Google Calendar and Workspace settings control how Meet links are generated. Done means new invites from the inventory list use Jitsi links and a test invite joins correctly.

  6. Move existing recordings out of Drive

    Export the Meet recordings you need to keep from Drive, decide retention with your legal and records teams, and store them in your self-hosted storage with access rules that match the original sharing. Recordings made by Jibri will be stored on your own server from the start, so this step covers only historical files. Check the export options and their limits in the Workspace documentation before you plan the transfer. Done means every recording on the retention list is in the new store, and the owners have confirmed access.

  7. Roll out in waves

    Move the remaining teams in groups, starting with those whose meetings have the fewest external guests and the lowest dependency on Meet-specific features. After each wave, review join issues, capacity figures and help-desk tickets, and fix the cause before adding the next group. Keep a rollback path to Meet until the final wave is stable and the Workspace contract decision is made. Done means every inventoried entry point points to Jitsi and the help desk has a documented support path.

Questions buyers ask before choosing Jitsi over Meet

How much does running Jitsi cost compared with Google Meet?

Meet is included in the Workspace subscription, so leaving it moves cost into separate lines rather than removing one. Jitsi Meet is Apache 2.0 licensed, so the software itself carries no license fee. The recurring costs are the servers for the central node and the videobridges, network bandwidth, storage for recordings, and the staff time spent on monitoring and upgrades. The one-time costs are design, setup, hardening and testing. The main drivers are concurrent participants, video quality, recording volume and where you host (your cloud account, your data center or a provider). The Jitsi scalable setup guide offers a starting reference of 4 CPU and 8 GB for the central server, and 4 or 8 CPU with 8 GB RAM for each videobridge. Ask any quote to show these components separately, and ask which costs are one-time and which recur each year.

How long does a Jitsi deployment take to set up?

The time depends on the scope you agree, not on the software alone. A single-server test on Debian or Ubuntu can be stood up quickly, but a production deployment adds several steps: DNS records, a domain certificate for HTTPS, firewall and NAT rules, identity integration (JWT, LDAP or Matrix), scaled videobridges, Jibri recording hosts, and tests across desktop and mobile clients. Each step depends on how quickly your network, identity and security teams can respond. Your own change-control process and the number of environments (test, staging, production) also affect the schedule. DeployOpen works to a fixed scope agreed in writing before work starts, so the timeline in that document is the figure to rely on. Ask any provider to list the dependencies on your side, because those are often what extends the schedule.

Can our internal team run Jitsi on its own?

Yes, if the team has Linux administration, reverse proxy and TLS experience, and enough time to operate the service after launch. The official stack has several moving parts: a web front end, the Prosody XMPP server, Jicofo, Jitsi Videobridge, and optional Jibri and Jigasi components. Your team must also handle capacity planning, media troubleshooting, backups, security review and upgrade testing. Many organizations keep one or two engineers as owners and use an implementation partner for the initial build. DeployOpen can plan, implement, customize, harden, back up, upgrade and document a Jitsi deployment under a fixed-scope agreement, and offers retainers for ongoing support and upgrades. Assess your team's skills against each component before deciding who does what.

What does Jitsi need from our Linux hosts, DNS and firewall?

The Debian and Ubuntu quick start supports Debian 12 (Bookworm) or newer and Ubuntu 24.04 or newer, and requires OpenJDK 17. Your network team needs to open:

  • 80/TCP and 443/TCP for the web app and HTTPS
  • 10000/UDP for media traffic through the videobridge
  • 5349/TCP (TCP fallback) and 3478/UDP (STUN) as optional ports

You also need a DNS name that resolves to the server and a valid certificate for it. The Jitsi handbook says HTTPS is necessary for audio and video to work, and warns that self-signed certificates cause problems, especially with mobile clients. Confirm the NAT and load balancer rules with your network team before testing, because media ports are often blocked by default in corporate firewalls.

Do recordings and guest access work the same way as in Meet?

They work differently, so plan both before migration. Meet saves recordings to Google Drive. Jitsi records through Jibri, an optional component you deploy on its own host, and the files stay on storage you control. Jibri has its own hardware and audio requirements, which you should confirm in its repository before sizing. For guests, the Jitsi handbook recommends JWT token authentication and a separate anonymous domain for guests, and it marks the older secure domain method with username and password as deprecated for new installations. The Docker configuration also supports internal XMPP accounts, LDAP and Matrix verification. Test the guest join flow with your identity provider and external users before you publish new links.

How does Jitsi scale when meeting load grows?

Jitsi scales horizontally by adding more videobridges. The central server handles signaling and conference setup, while the videobridges carry the media, so you add bridge nodes as concurrent participation grows. The Jitsi scalable setup guide notes that the default install is already configured for horizontal scaling. The main drivers are the number of concurrent participants, video layouts and quality, bandwidth per bridge, and where the bridges sit relative to users. Scaling is not automatic in the way a hosted service is, so you must monitor load, add nodes and test capacity before large events. Ask your provider to show a load test plan and the metrics they will watch on each bridge.

Who handles Jitsi upgrades and security patches?

Whoever operates the deployment does, so this must be assigned in the scope. Jitsi Meet releases are tagged by build number. The jitsi-meet repository lists stable/jitsi-meet_11248, published September 14, 2026. The Docker containers run rootless with read-only filesystems since stable-11146, which affects how you update them. Each upgrade should be tested against your authentication setup, Jibri recordings, operating system updates and bridge behavior before it reaches users. Your options are to run upgrades in-house, use a hosted Jitsi service from 8x8 (the company that maintains Jitsi), or agree an upgrade and support retainer with DeployOpen. Write the cadence, testing steps and owner into the runbook.

How to decide before committing to a migration

Start by confirming what your current Google Workspace edition actually gives you, because that sets the baseline the Jitsi pilot has to beat. Ask your Google account team for the current participant limit, recording behavior, and whether recordings are saved to Drive, and get the answers in writing for your specific edition and region. Then confirm which Meet features your users rely on daily, such as breakout rooms, live captions, or Calendar-integrated links, and list each one as either needed on day one, replaceable, or accepted as a loss. This list is the most useful artifact you will produce before committing, because it turns a general comparison into a decision about your own meetings.

Run a pilot of Jitsi Meet in a staging environment that matches your intended production layout, with HTTPS on a proper domain certificate, since the Jitsi handbook states that HTTPS is necessary for audio and video to work. Use the pilot to test the authentication model you expect to run (JWT tokens are the handbook's recommended approach, and the older secure domain method is marked deprecated for new installations), and to test recording through Jibri if you need it. Measure bandwidth and CPU load with meeting sizes your organization really holds, including a large all-hands and a cross-office session. Record the videobridge utilization, the outbound bandwidth per participant, and any drop in quality at the sizes you care about, then compare those numbers against your own network and hardware budget. Ask your infrastructure team to confirm the port and firewall requirements against your data center or cloud network before the pilot starts.

Finally, check identity and compliance needs against the pilot results. Confirm whether your directory and single sign-on design can issue the JWT tokens or work with the LDAP or Matrix options described in the Docker guide, and who owns that integration. Confirm with your compliance and legal teams which records, retention rules and access logs must exist for meetings, and whether Jitsi's recording output and server logs meet them. Those answers, along with the pilot measurements and the written Workspace limits, are the inputs you should bring to a scoped quote, so that any implementation partner or internal team prices the work against your actual requirements.

How DeployOpen helps evaluate, implement and run Jitsi Meet

DeployOpen is a Chainscore Labs company that plans, implements, hardens, backs up and documents self-hosted open-source platforms inside the client's own infrastructure. For Google Meet vs Jitsi Meet, the work starts with a written scope covering the Workspace editions in use, the meeting volume and the identity and recording requirements.

How we scope

  • Inventory which Google Meet features your teams use, including recording, live streaming and calendar integration.
  • Size the Jitsi web, Prosody, Jicofo and videobridge tiers against expected concurrent participants and bandwidth.
  • Agree deliverables, timelines and acceptance criteria in writing before any build work starts.

How we build

  • Deploy Jitsi Meet with Docker or Debian and Ubuntu packages in your own cloud account, data center or air-gapped network.
  • Configure HTTPS with a proper domain certificate, JWT or SSO authentication and a separate anonymous domain for guests.
  • Add Jibri recording and test videobridge horizontal scaling under load before any user rollout begins.

How we hand over

  • Document the architecture, configuration keys, ports, scaling runbooks and backup procedures for your operations team.
  • Deliver compliance readiness evidence, such as access control and logging records, for your independent auditors to assess.
  • Run a knowledge transfer session so your administrators can operate, patch and troubleshoot the deployment themselves.

How we support

  • Engagements are fixed-scope, with ongoing support, upgrades and continuous testing available as a retainer.
  • Plan Jitsi version upgrades and security patch cycles with your change management process.
  • Confirm with DeployOpen during scoping which retainer terms, response expectations and testing cadence apply to your environment.

Talk to our team.

Tell us what you're working on, whether it's a deployment, an audit, a security test or a cyber range. You'll speak with an engineer who can help you scope it.

  • 30-minute call: free, with no obligation.
  • NDA on request: we can sign before you share details.
  • Clear next steps: a scope and plan after the call.